All enrgy leaving the surface is passed to space as radiation, see NASA energy budget.
Radiated LWIR, and indeed incoming EMR, is not warmed or absorbed by N2 or O2, they are ideal gasses that are transparent to this frequency of radiation and their molecular structure does not have multiple binding energy modes. That is simply false. KInetic enrgy is thermal, unrelated.
GHG radiative scattering happens throughout the affected frequencies path to the tropopause, the GHGs inhibit radiation passing through the Troposphere to space, nothing is warmed or captured in a such scattering process of quantum excitation and relaxation, no enrgy loss occurs within the atmosphere as a result of it.
As regards thermal enrgy, the latent heat of evaporation becomes thermal energy in the Troposphere and that is in turn released to space as photonic energy, yes. THis has nothing to do with the radiative Greenhouse effect.
The CO2 band saturation effect is described as logarithmic throughout the literature. Because it is. Read it. Nobody describes it as logistic? There is even an expression that defines it. Can't type it here. It simply an inverse log function, decaying not expanding, there are two types.
See real scientific papers for details, Pierrehumbert's is good, as I reference.
You are of course right regarding how the radiative spectrum measured from space gives an indication of the altitude in the Troposphere a particular frequency of radiation has come from, if you know the lapse rate where it departed for space.
Great Article Brian. I normally pester Howard , but he is busy today. So a couple of queries. Firstly,
I thought the incoming EMR could heat O2 and N2 to a small extent through Photoionisation and Photodissocition? And if so, do you know how much? Or is that wrong? And secondly, I can never totally comprehend the NASA Energy Budget. I get the approx Quarter total incoming solar radiation of 340.4 W/m2 and the balance of Absobed and Reflected energy. All Good. But where does the 398.2 Emitted or the 340.3 Back Radiation come from? Thin air? Surely an emitted Photon of IRR redircted downwards by a Mol of CO2 in the narrow band of 14 to 16.5 Mu must have at best equal, but probaly less Energy than the Surface it came from. Therefore it could not possibly "Heat" the surface, let alone "cumulatively heat" the surface, causing more evaporation of H20, and warming the planet, as stated by the IPCC. Unless I've misundestood Thermodynamics ?? And isn't LWIR reflected by H2O anyway, so the Oceans couldn't be Heated by the redirected LWIR ? Your thoughts?? Cheers David D
Whitburn et al refers to clear skies which are fairly rare? Do clouds add to the GH effect and overall balancing, or do they subtract or both? Given their relative frequency of occurrence, are they more important than the clear sky component?
The radiative spectrum shows that all the CHG radiation is captured in the lower troposphere and distributed throughout the troposphere. The absorbed IR is largely transformed into kinetic energy in N2 and O2, thus warming the lower atmosphere. It is not until the top of the troposphere that H2O radiates its energy into space. Similarly in the stratosphere, the atmosphere is less dense and allows CO2 to radiate into space.
CO2 absorption is not logarithmic, it is in fact a logistic function. If it was logarithmic, that would infer that the radiation emitted from the surface is unlimited, when it is governed by Wiens.
Increased CO2 would also increase in the stratosphere allowing any additional heat to be radiated to space more effectively.
That's mostly wrong in the science fact.
All enrgy leaving the surface is passed to space as radiation, see NASA energy budget.
Radiated LWIR, and indeed incoming EMR, is not warmed or absorbed by N2 or O2, they are ideal gasses that are transparent to this frequency of radiation and their molecular structure does not have multiple binding energy modes. That is simply false. KInetic enrgy is thermal, unrelated.
GHG radiative scattering happens throughout the affected frequencies path to the tropopause, the GHGs inhibit radiation passing through the Troposphere to space, nothing is warmed or captured in a such scattering process of quantum excitation and relaxation, no enrgy loss occurs within the atmosphere as a result of it.
As regards thermal enrgy, the latent heat of evaporation becomes thermal energy in the Troposphere and that is in turn released to space as photonic energy, yes. THis has nothing to do with the radiative Greenhouse effect.
The CO2 band saturation effect is described as logarithmic throughout the literature. Because it is. Read it. Nobody describes it as logistic? There is even an expression that defines it. Can't type it here. It simply an inverse log function, decaying not expanding, there are two types.
See real scientific papers for details, Pierrehumbert's is good, as I reference.
You are of course right regarding how the radiative spectrum measured from space gives an indication of the altitude in the Troposphere a particular frequency of radiation has come from, if you know the lapse rate where it departed for space.
Great Article Brian. I normally pester Howard , but he is busy today. So a couple of queries. Firstly,
I thought the incoming EMR could heat O2 and N2 to a small extent through Photoionisation and Photodissocition? And if so, do you know how much? Or is that wrong? And secondly, I can never totally comprehend the NASA Energy Budget. I get the approx Quarter total incoming solar radiation of 340.4 W/m2 and the balance of Absobed and Reflected energy. All Good. But where does the 398.2 Emitted or the 340.3 Back Radiation come from? Thin air? Surely an emitted Photon of IRR redircted downwards by a Mol of CO2 in the narrow band of 14 to 16.5 Mu must have at best equal, but probaly less Energy than the Surface it came from. Therefore it could not possibly "Heat" the surface, let alone "cumulatively heat" the surface, causing more evaporation of H20, and warming the planet, as stated by the IPCC. Unless I've misundestood Thermodynamics ?? And isn't LWIR reflected by H2O anyway, so the Oceans couldn't be Heated by the redirected LWIR ? Your thoughts?? Cheers David D
Whitburn et al refers to clear skies which are fairly rare? Do clouds add to the GH effect and overall balancing, or do they subtract or both? Given their relative frequency of occurrence, are they more important than the clear sky component?
The radiative spectrum shows that all the CHG radiation is captured in the lower troposphere and distributed throughout the troposphere. The absorbed IR is largely transformed into kinetic energy in N2 and O2, thus warming the lower atmosphere. It is not until the top of the troposphere that H2O radiates its energy into space. Similarly in the stratosphere, the atmosphere is less dense and allows CO2 to radiate into space.
CO2 absorption is not logarithmic, it is in fact a logistic function. If it was logarithmic, that would infer that the radiation emitted from the surface is unlimited, when it is governed by Wiens.
Increased CO2 would also increase in the stratosphere allowing any additional heat to be radiated to space more effectively.